tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8588016437086497122.post7775799684511893887..comments2023-10-15T02:05:39.935-06:00Comments on As it is Written: Arguing With ScriptureAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14412247474926594732noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8588016437086497122.post-17934730691978559532010-08-25T21:15:06.085-06:002010-08-25T21:15:06.085-06:00Paul is writing under the inspiration of the Holy ...Paul is writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, who is the boss. God knows the audience of Paul's present and future. A fully developed revelation of the trinitarian God is going to require heavy use of the OT, with Christ fulfilling what is revealed there. Jesus Christ is YHWH in the flesh. The Holy Spirit's revelation of this is somewhat independent of Paul AND his audience.Jeff Hallettnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8588016437086497122.post-39776184964504294812010-08-20T14:35:55.349-06:002010-08-20T14:35:55.349-06:00Paul is so boss.Paul is so boss.Margo Jean Stewarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08872023462064958383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8588016437086497122.post-81877608942587818072010-08-18T08:32:43.037-06:002010-08-18T08:32:43.037-06:00Some people have uses for scripture that don't...Some people have uses for scripture that don't include telling other people what real faith looks like as opposed to false or dangerous faith. There are other functions that scripture has, so not everything is an exercise in dominance, necessarily. <br /><br />The way that it should inform our interpretation of Paul is we should be aware of the fact and keep our eyes open for the ways that Paul seeks to exercise power through the use of scripture. It helps prevent us from automatically assuming his readings of scripture are benign or plain. It forces us to recognize that Paul's readings of scripture are shaped by his prior conceptions of what he thinks his communities need to look like. Recognizing that, we are better prepared to make good judgments about Paul's project. Knowing what Paul is really doing with scripture opens us up to investigating why he is doing it, which enables us to make better determinations about the legitimacy of what Paul is doing, and if we deem what Paul is doing (here or there) to be in certain ways legitimate, what ways and why, and in what ways illegitimate and why? <br /><br />A good Foucaultian would know that although there is no escape from power, we are better off conscious of the way our discourse is an exercise in power than oblivious to it. The recognition enables us to be self-critical about our exercise of power. And for people like us, Tyler, our exegesis of Paul's exegesis is itself an exercise of power.Thom Starkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18436448315505182664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8588016437086497122.post-72921599993160320892010-08-18T08:19:19.869-06:002010-08-18T08:19:19.869-06:00Fair enough. Paul, like all of us, uses language t...Fair enough. Paul, like all of us, uses language to do something that he wants. He marshals arguments to do so. If all language does this how do quotations differ? How do quotations ever get used as something other than a weapon by Paul or Thom or anyone?<br /><br />Recognizing that reality of quotations being used to do something I wonder how that ought to guide interpreting Paul?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14412247474926594732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8588016437086497122.post-87352085826470473212010-08-16T09:53:44.529-06:002010-08-16T09:53:44.529-06:00I'd say a more honest way to look at it (not t...I'd say a more honest way to look at it (not to imply that you're dishonest) is to say that Corinthians is "putting the gloves on." It's the same hands underneath.Thom Starkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18436448315505182664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8588016437086497122.post-37155178666595260482010-08-16T09:51:52.121-06:002010-08-16T09:51:52.121-06:00You are certainly right there. Galatians is Paul &...You are certainly right there. Galatians is Paul "taking the gloves off."Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14412247474926594732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8588016437086497122.post-27024631626856054562010-08-16T09:49:06.936-06:002010-08-16T09:49:06.936-06:00My initial response is to read Galatians and tell ...My initial response is to read Galatians and tell me with a straight face that Paul isn't using scripture as a weapon against his opponents. If you're not able to say it again with a straight face, then try re-reading 1 Corinthians in light of your NPP.Thom Starkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18436448315505182664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8588016437086497122.post-71248144555403610692010-08-16T09:16:19.936-06:002010-08-16T09:16:19.936-06:00You are right in that Paul used scripture to enfor...You are right in that Paul used scripture to enforce his will. Paul, however, would have simply described it as "God's will." Though he does, on occasion, make a distinction between his will and God's (1 Cor 7.25), he is still seeking to persuade and thus enforce what he thinks. Everyone does this. All speech in this sense is an instance of dominance. I want to caution against taking this observation too far in regard to Paul.<br /><br />The reason I questioned the reading of Paul's use of the OT as a weapon is because of the way Paul lives. Describing Paul's use of the OT in militant language does not fit the manner of life he adopted as a suffering servant (esp. 1 Cor 9.1-27; cf. 2 Cor 6.3-13). Paul does not use scripture to beat his congregations into submitting to his will to dominate as much as to submit to the example of Jesus.<br /><br />I understand what you're saying about Paul's use of scripture being an example of dominance. I agree in the same sense every time you write it is an attempt to "dominate." Likewise, I am trying to persuade and thus exercise dominance over you. So we can all say thanks to Foucault and Nietzsche. This ideological critique is helpful. I don't think it fits with Paul's overall attempt to move his churches to follow Christ and describing what that means by frequent appeals to the OT. He isn't trying to have power for himself. He is trying to tell the truth about God which he believes is embodied in Jesus and articulated in the Jewish Scriptures.<br /><br />I do need to develop a response to this critique more thoroughly. Maybe you can help. How can we speak without always attempting to dominate others? Is it any less dominating to talk about what others ought to think without reference to God?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14412247474926594732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8588016437086497122.post-69415219145315478552010-08-15T00:27:22.885-06:002010-08-15T00:27:22.885-06:00"This pomo reading of Paul's citation of ..."This pomo reading of Paul's citation of the OT is an ideologically charged argument that sounds like a poor description of the author of 1 Corinthians."<br /><br />Why? You don't say. <br /><br />"So, Scripture in Paul's hands is little more than a "weapon," one that "he did not hesitate to deploy [. . .] when he felt that it would advance his cause" (181). This pomo reading of Paul's citation of the OT is an ideologically charged argument that sounds like a poor description of the author of 1 Corinthians. Scripture citation does have rhetorical effects but assuming the intentions behind the rhetoric are always about domination is unwarranted."<br /><br />He didn't say that the intentions behind the rhetoric were <i>about</i> domination. He said they were an instance of dominance. The fact is, that <i>is</i> what scripture is all about—exercising control over those who are committed to it. The Laws of Moses are all exercises in dominance. The very construct of "authoritative scripture" implies that the application of scripture to a community is one of a dominant voice over its subjects. Whatever Stanley may have gotten wrong elsewhere, he got this right. Paul used scripture because it was a weapon that was supposed to work in enforcing his will upon his churches. That may not sound nice, but then again, it isn't.Thom Starkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18436448315505182664noreply@blogger.com